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Brian Lehrer: Former President Jimmy Carter is my first guest this hour. Some of his thoughts are incorporated in a new publication of the Bible, called the NIV or New International Version Lessons from Life Bible, with personal reflections on selected passages by President Carter. We recorded this yesterday, I asked him how he and Rick Santorum could be so politically different if both are inspired by Jesus and many other questions. After we hear from President Carter, we'll take your calls on specific things from your religious beliefs that inform your political beliefs. I started by saying hello to President Carter from New York.

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President Jimmy Carter: It is good to be with you and the people around New York.

Brian Lehrer: I see you've been teaching Sunday school for 65 years. Who do you teach? What do you focus on?

President Jimmy Carter: I began when I was 18 years old, I was a midshipman at the Naval Academy in Annapolis. I taught some on submarines when I was in that service, and then when I was a former, I taught a few times when I was present in the First Baptist Church in Washington. Since then, I've been teaching mostly at Baptist Church in Plains, Georgia, which is called Maranatha. We have a small congregation ourselves, but we have hundreds of visitors who come to here we teach.

Brian Lehrer: Do you focus on certain things?

President Jimmy Carter: No, I teach these standard recommended lessons about half the time in the Old Testament, the Hebrew texts, and the other half of time in the New Testament. I teach a different lesson every Sunday. This particular month, we happen to be studying some of the parables of Jesus, but then next month, we go to the Old Testament.

Brian Lehrer: I was given some excerpts from the NIV lessons from Life Bible marked as passages important to you. I thought we might go through a few of these. Mark 2:15-17, on despising others, about Jesus sitting with Levi, an outcast, and the role of tax collectors. What's important to you about this?
President Jimmy Carter: Well, I think it indicates that Jesus reached out to people who were unsavory or despised, or second-rate in the community, lepers in that community were treated like we first treated people with AIDS, they were looked upon as condemned by God. Of course, tax collectors were at the bottom of their social list, as far as the Jewish hierarchy was concerned, because they were looked upon as betraying their own people and collecting taxes from the Romans, for the Romans.
Brian Lehrer: For the Romans who were oppressing them.
President Jimmy Carter: That's right, and keep in part of it themselves, most of them. They were looked upon as both dishonest and also as traitors to their own people, but the important thing is that Jesus reached out to those habitually who were despised or in need or inarticulate or suffering or poor.
Brian Lehrer: How about the persistent outcast status of gays and lesbians among some of the most observant Christians? Why do you think people are so dug in on that, in the name of Jesus who was supposed to be tolerant?
President Jimmy Carter: Well, Jesus wrote and spoke about a lot of different sins that we have, like selfishness and pride, and so forth. He never mentioned homosexuality. Of course, we know that even days before Christ, in Roman history, and so forth, there was a lot of gay practices. I think Jesus didn't condemn gay people, and our church accepts gay members. We don't question people when they come to our church, but I think there's a natural inclination on the part of human beings, to put ourselves in a position superior to some kind of other people.
I grew up in a deep South when white people considered themselves to be superior to African Americans. It was condoned, and approved by the Supreme Court and by the Congress, and other people. Now, of course, that's all over at least legally. We see Americans now turning to despise what they call illegal aliens, or people who come here from Mexico, or other southern countries. I think in almost any society, there's a tendency to exalt ourselves and our particular character of life, above and beyond some other people, but that's what some people, even if they are Christians, are concerning those who happen to be gay.

Brian Lehrer: It's one of humanity's biggest challenges, isn't it? Sitting with the outcast or defining more people as us and fewer as them, it has implications for war and peace. It has implications for national unity, something you think about a lot?

President Jimmy Carter: Well, it is something that we work on every day, the Carter Center has programs in more than 70 countries around the world. Half of those countries are in Africa, where the people are poor and in desperate need. Number one cause is to address diseases that the World Health Organization calls neglected; tropical diseases, those that other people don't want to fool with.

That's what the Carter Center does, they are ones that are not even known in our country. Of course, while we're in those countries, we help people learn how to grow more food grains for themselves, and we tackle very difficult elections. Also around the world, we now involved in a six-month program in Egypt. That's our 89th election, I believe, and we negotiate peace agreements, but the Carter Center is able to put ways to put Jesus' teachings into practice.

Not that we are a religious organization as such, but we reach out to people who are in need. I think that one of the most difficult things for a fluent religious people to do is to find others to whom they can minister in a proper way. That doesn't apply just to Christians, by the way, but it's very difficult to break down that barrier between us and them. One of the easier ways that Rosa and I have found is through Habitat for Humanity, where we build houses every year for poor people in need. That's part of life, in the application of religious beliefs.

Brian Lehrer: Are you optimistic about Egypt? There's a lot of pessimism in some quarters where there had been optimism after Tahrir Square, partly because it seems like that country is going to go more Muslim fundamentalist if that's the right phrase, then people here had hoped.

President Jimmy Carter: Well, we have to remember that 90% of the people who live in Egypt are Muslims. It shouldn't be any surprise to people that Muslims are winning a majority of the seats in the parliament. I've met with the leaders, I've been over to Egypt, participate in the election, I've met with those who have been victorious. They assure me that they are going to be a very modest in their application of authority, they're going to try to make sure that the government rules in a secular way. One of the things I was particularly interested in doing when I was over there was to get all of the facets of the Muslim faith, to promise me that they would honor the peace treaty that we negotiated between Egypt and Israel.

[crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Camp David on your watch.

President Jimmy Carter: I'm sorry?

Brian Lehrer: Camp David on your watch.

President Jimmy Carter: That's right, and we did that six months after we had to Camp David Accords, but that peace treaty has not been violated a single word in the last 33 years. I wanted to make sure that they were going to adhere to these basic principles, they assured me that they will.

Brian Lehrer: Former President Jimmy Carter with us, some of his thoughts included as passages adjunct to passages of the Bible and the new NIV Lessons from Life Bible. Another passage from Mark that I have here is one of interest to you is 9:33-35 on selfishness. "We want to be the greatest. We want to focus on ourselves." What is it about that passage for you?
President Jimmy Carter: Well, although they're not mentioned in the Bible, some people include seven sins. I think the number one origin of most sinfulness is the sin of pride, self-exaltation, of placing ourselves above others. This leads to many other sins like selfishness, we want to keep what we have by ourselves and not share it with others because we don't think they're equal to us in societal's point of view, or in the eyes of God, where Paul wrote to the Galatians, "All people are equal in the eyes God, men and women and slaves and masters, and Jews, and Greeks, and so forth."
I think that's what Christianity teaches us. We should not be selfish and withholding the benefits in life that we have. Those benefits include not only money, but also our time, our effort, our intelligence, and God gives every person regardless of their IQ or their level of education, or their wealth, adequate ability to exercise the teachings of Christ, to be loving and forgiving and unselfish and humble and sharing. I think that's a very good lesson that Mark does. Mark is one of the most interesting books in the Bible because it's almost like a newspaper account of what happened in Jesus' life. As you probably know, both Matthew and Luke copy what Mark wrote first. John, the third gospel, is completely separate.

Brian Lehrer: The book says, you teach that our salvation is through the sacrifice of His life and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That faith in Christ leads to manifesting personal qualities such as love, humility, gentleness, forgiveness, and faithfulness. Do you believe literally in the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus?

President Jimmy Carter: Yes, I do. That's a fundamental belief of almost all Christians. I think all the Christians that I know, Catholics, Protestants of all kinds. It's so that we are saved by the grace of God, through our faith in Jesus Christ. I have that personal assurance and personal belief, yes.

Brian Lehrer: The resurrection is pretty mystical, metaphysical thing.

President Jimmy Carter: Well, Paul wrote, we don't know how that is. It's just like, you see a butterfly, it looks like a worm. All of a sudden, it transforms into a beautiful, more ornate thing like a flower. He describes that our life now it's kind of like a seed is planted, like a seed peanut, which I grow. You plant the peanut, which is a little tiny thing, and you're ready to eat some when they're parched or cooked. Then it goes into a beautiful flowering plant that has yellow blossoms and is almost miraculous in its complexity. We don't have any way to understand what's going to happen in the future. Jesus said we wouldn't. We wouldn't know when that's going to come. We wouldn't know what the characterization would be.

We have faith in that. I think that what do we have faith in all the miracles of Christ described in the Bible or not. We can certainly adopt the teachings of Jesus as a perfect example of how a human being should live. That's not a derogation of the biblical facts or miracles. I think we can derive just as much satisfaction from trying to emulate Jesus' life. By the way, it's not a sacrifice either. It always turns out to be an adventure kind of unpredictability about life as we stretch our hearts, as we stretch our minds to accomplish more people. To take on more elaborate responsibilities in life. It turns out to be a blessing.

Brian Lehrer: There are a number of prominent atheist authors on the scene these days, as you know, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens until his recent death. Have you read any of those books? Do you think atheism cannot lead to an equally moral life?

President Jimmy Carter: Well, I think an atheist can live a moral life, because most of the standards of society, as encompassed in our laws, and in the American Constitution, and in other laws around the world are based on religious faith. I don't think that those laws are much different between Christianity and Judaism, for instance, Islam and Hinduism, they all have a basic principle as far as moral values are concerned.

For instance, peace. We worship Jesus as a prince of peace. It would be good if everybody did comply with that mandate to resolve differences among ourselves peacefully. We've already mentioned some of the others, like humility and service to others, the alleviation of suffering. I think that the moral values can be applicable to an atheist who looks at Christian values and says, "I don't believe in those, but I adopt the basic principles that Christ espouses." Whether they say that or not, I think that's what they're doing.

Brian Lehrer: There is an aggressively Christian candidate in the presidential race, Rick Santorum, and his politics are very different from yours. How should the skeptic think about whether Christianity means anything if it can inspire politics is different as yours and his?

President Jimmy Carter: Well, I think that his fate is probably very similar to mine his basic faith, the application of it, though, would be different. I really was very rigid in my separation of church and state when I was elected. I had never permitted, for instance, religious services to be held in the White House. Before me, I remember Richard Nixon, a Republican, Lyndon Johnson, a Democrat, and many others, for instance, had invited Billy Graham into the White House to conduct Sunday services. I wouldn't do that because I felt like Thomas Jefferson did when he said in one of his letters, which is "Build a wall between church and state."

An improper thing, in my opinion, as far as religion, and politics is concerned is a use of your own power, say, as president or governor or a Congress member, to exalt your own particular chosen faith, to the detriment of voters. Those are the kinds of things that I don't approve of, but I'm not criticizing Santorum. He has a right to express his views and people make a judgment accordingly.

Brian Lehrer: Christianity seems to lead to such different politics.

President Jimmy Carter: Well, it does and so does Judaism. If you go to Israel, you can see a much more diversified political environment than here. Of course, in Islam, we see highly diverse beliefs and say, in Iran and Saudi Arabia, go down the list of others. We monitored the election in Indonesia, for instance, which is the largest Muslim country in the world.

We have changed them from a totalitarian government for 50 years into what's now a very pure democracy. We have to remember that the three largest democracies on earth, all have different religious faiths. India is the largest is Hinduism, Indonesia, and the United States, as I mentioned, already a Muslim and Christian. Democracy is not dependent on any particular religious faith.

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Former President Jimmy Carter, will continue with our interview in a minute.

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Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We continue with Former President Jimmy Carter. Some of his thoughts are incorporated in a new publication of the Bible called, The Lessons from Life Bible. With personal reflections on selected passages by President Carter, we recorded this yesterday, and after we hear from President Carter, we'll take your calls on specific things from your religious beliefs that inform your political beliefs. You can start calling in now to be ready to go. 212-433-WNYC. Call in with one way that your religious beliefs specifically inform your political beliefs, 212-433-9692.

We hope to get calls from people of diverse religious backgrounds so if you are a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, or Hindu, or Buddhist, or whatever you are, tell us one way that your religion informs your politics today, 212-433-WNYC-433-9692, or even within the broad religious groups, if you are Catholic, or Protestant, or Mormon, or another kind of Christian. If you are a reformed, conservative, Orthodox or Reconstructionist, or another kind of Jew. If you are Sunni, or Shiite, or whatever kind of Muslim.

What's one thing from your religious faith that informs your political beliefs? 212-433-9692, or you can post it to wnyc.org, click on Brian Lehrer show. We continue now with my conversation with Jimmy Carter. I asked him why some of the most overtly religious politicians seem to be the most militaristic ones in this country if the teachings of Jesus argue against militarism.

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President Jimmy Carter: Well, the teachings of Jesus do argue against it, but some of the people who are deeply religious ignore that particular aspect of Christianity. I've noticed that some of the more right-wing Christians, including Baptists like I used to be, have been the most forthright in promoting war. They are in the leadership now of wanting to go to war against Iran in the future. They supported a war in both wars Iraq, for instance.

I have a deep concern about that, but still, they have a right to interpret selectively the teachings of Christ, but there's no doubt that they would say in church services, that we worship Jesus as a prince of peace. At the same time, they overtly promote a settlement of issues by military means. I just disagree with them.

Brian Lehrer: We're doing a series on our program called The End of War based on the book of that title by science writer John Horgan. He argues that justice humanity turned slavery and human sacrifice from acceptable institutions to unacceptable ones, that war could be made culturally unacceptable around the world with the right effort over time. We're asking many of our guests, do you think human beings can ever abolish war? Do you?
President Jimmy Carter: Yes. I think that's certainly true, certainly a future prayer to expend. I think a lot of people felt that might be the case in 1945 when we organized the United Nations, that that would be the end of war but we know that it isn't. I think that this is something that we should do. I wrote a book a number of years ago called Talking Peace, where I described the causes of conflict and how we can resolve issues peacefully, even the most intense disagreements and the most intense personal animosity between two people or two nations can be resolved through the application of Christian principles. With the help of a trusted mediator, or counselor in a church or a mediator, like I played a small role between Egypt and Israel.
I think that's certainly a possibility. Nowadays, unfortunately, my wife and I have been to more than 130 countries. Now when we travel around doing work for the Carter Center, it's generally accepted that the most intense warmonger for the last 35 or 40 years has been the United States of America. We're the country that's in the forefront of almost every war that's started.

When you go into Brazil, when you go into China, when you go into Egypt and so forth, you find countries that haven't been to war in the last 30 years or more. Rosa and I were discussing at lunch today, she was reading an article about it that some people live in a life never without peace. As a matter of fact, we have grandchildren who have never lived in the country that was not at war.
Brian Lehrer: Warmonger is a tough word to describe your country.
President Jimmy Carter: Well, I was quoting other people. Our country is in the forefront of those nations that are eager to go to war to resolve differences. We've proven that, as you know, in a number of cases for a long time, when we7 went into Korea, when we went into Vietnam, we went into Iraq both times. I think all those wars were unnecessary.

Brian Lehrer: On another issue, but related, you have worked for human rights around the world. I wonder if you followed this recent issue of the viral video about the Ugandan warlord Joseph Kony and his use of children in war. It seems like the video is coming under attack more than Kony is. Have you seen it?

President Jimmy Carter: I haven't seen the video. I've read about it and seen excerpts from it. The Carter Center dealt with Joseph Kony for a long time back in I'd say 15 or 20 years ago and tried to induce him to stop his abuse. He would raid, he was living in South Sudan at that time and would raid in to Northern Uganda and capture boys and girls. He would make wives of his soldiers or prostitutes out of the girls, and he would force the boys to go to war.

In the last three years, he has not lived in South Sudan, hasn't had anything to do with Uganda. He's been in other countries, primarily in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The film is outdated and obviously, some of the aspects are distorted, but I think to publicize the crimes of Joseph Kony, who's been indicted as, as you know, by the International Criminal Court, is probably a good thing. A few months ago, I think six months ago or so President Obama decided to furnish a hundred advisors, two people who were trying to hunt down Kony and bring him to justice.

Brian Lehrer: Do you have an opinion about the tension between religious liberty and access to contraception involved in the president's healthcare policy and the debate that that's begun?

President Jimmy Carter: Well, I have an interest in it. I think that contraception is completely permissible under the faith that I have. I think almost 98% of Catholics also use contraception. I understand from looking at the news reports, are 99% of non-Catholics who are Christians believe the contraception is acceptable. I know that in the poorest countries and most deprived countries, now contraception is a great blessing to families that want to restrict the number of children that they have. I'm fully in favor of the use of contraception's, like my wife and I have used contraceptives in the past when we were a childbearing age. I think that this is just a false political issue that probably based on sincere and I think improper beliefs of some Christians.

Brian Lehrer: We just have a few minutes left. I'm curious, as a Christian, do you believe in an afterlife?

President Jimmy Carter: Yes, I do. I believe in an afterlife. I don't know what form it will take and so forth, but I believe in it. We are taught in my Sunday school class, and I think in most churches that we don't believe in Christ and try to exemplify the life of Christ and our own actions just so we'll have an afterlife. We do it because we are blessed by the knowledge of Jesus and we are blessed by the love of God.

Afterlife is there but it's not the motivation for us to accept Christ. It's a reward that we have and nobody knows who will be there, who Jesus said that in their final judgment, they'll be sheeping goats and some will be chosen to their surprise and some will not be chosen to their surprise. I think it's an unpredictable thing but I believe in it.

Brian Lehrer: You don't believe in heaven and hell, literally, as a duality between eternal happiness and eternal retribution?

President Jimmy Carter: No. I think that there's some sharp difference between status after death but I don't know what the format form of it might be.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think that that motivates people to live a good life? Do you think that that's used by religious leaders as a form of control either in a good sense or a bad sense?

President Jimmy Carter: It is. When I was young we had revival preaches to come to our church and they preached what was called, held-in-damnation sermons to try to frighten people into becoming Christians with a threat that we'd be burning in hell and would have a dastardly current and future life. That's pretty well gone out of style right now and it's not an element in my own Bible teaches or in the sermons that we have in our church. As I just mentioned in the previous statement, though, we accept Christ through an element of peace and love and sacrifices service to others in a joyful and poor life, and not just to receive some reward after death.

Brian Lehrer: We've talked about everything from the tax collector in Mark to heaven and hell and war against Iran. I guess we've about covered it.

President Jimmy Carter: We've had a good conversation. Thank you. I appreciate it very much.

Brian Lehrer: Former president Jimmy Carter, some of his thoughts are included in the new NIV which stands for New International version. Is that what that is?

President Jimmy Carter: Yes, I think there are about 200 of my comments scattered throughout that particular version of the Bible.

Brian Lehrer: In that Lessons from Life Bible. President Carter, thank you again.

President Jimmy Carter: I've enjoyed it. Goodbye.

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We recorded that interview with Jimmy Carter yesterday. We'll follow up on that right now with specific things from your religious beliefs that inform your political beliefs. We have our lines full from the invitation that I gave you a few minutes ago when we started the second part of that interview. Let's go right to some of our callers and Molly in Manhattan. You're on WNYC. Molly, thanks so much for calling in.

Molly: Hi, Brian. Thanks for taking my call. I was just telling your [unintelligible 00:28:51] that I feel like I was raised a Roman Catholic and I'm not a practicing Catholic now but I still consider myself Catholic. I'm unique among my liberal peers in that the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon is what makes me trust him more than other Republican candidates.

I'm less afraid of him than the other Republican candidates because I feel like, as a Catholic and someone who knows a lot of Mormons, there's a lot of critiques to be made of the Mormon religion but one thing you can really say about Mormons is they care about the world and they care about the poor. I feel like that's so deeply embedded in the religion and it was so deeply embedded in my religion growing up and I don't think that's something that being in the White House could squeeze out of Mitt Romney if he's actually devout Mormon.

Brian Lehrer: That's so interesting. You're a Roman Catholic. Santorum is the same religion as you.

Molly: [chuckles] Yes, kind of, I guess the church, the people of God, and then there's Rome.

Brian Lehrer: Molly, thank you very much. Thank you.

Molly: Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Manish in Stanford, you're on WNYC. Hello.

Manish: Hey, Brian, great show.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you.

Manish: My perspective on this is I'm culturally Hindu. I was raised at the Hindu and the older I get, one of the tenets of Hindu or with autism that I really understand and value is that of tolerance. When I look at any political party, the one thing I value more else is really the tolerant aspect of it, be it religion, be it different political views, be it sexual identity or what have you. That I think is probably the biggest aspect of the religious--

Brian Lehrer: Background that you have.

Manish: Yes, exactly.

Brian Lehrer: I don't know how close your ties to India are but a lot of Muslims in India say one of the big problems that they have is lack of tolerance by the Hindu majority.

Manish: Who says that?

Brian Lehrer: Muslims in India.

Manish: That's absolutely not true. If you look at any metric, figure out whatever metric you want, political representation, religious representation or what have you. Muslims in India or Christians in India or Sikhs in India or [unintelligible 00:31:33] in India or Jews in India are treated probably as well as they're anywhere else.

Brian Lehrer: That comes from the importance that Hinduism places on tolerance, you're saying.

Manish: Oh, absolutely. From a religious perspective, the way I look at it is there's many paths which lead to whatever the end goal is, there's many rivers which lead to the sea. You choose a path and if the path works for you, that's great.

Brian Lehrer: Manish, thank you very much for calling in. Dave in Huntington, you're on WNYC. Hello, Dave.

Dave: Hey, how are you doing? I live in Long Island now but I'll first say that I'm a conservative Jew although I don't keep kosher or any of that. I was bar mitzvah. Even though I live on Long Island, I was originally from Pittsburgh which is why I don't sound like Jerry Seinfeld. Basically, when it comes to being Jewish, I think that if there's any political influence, it's mostly on foreign policy is a lot of people might know.

I don't consider myself someone who lives by what I was taught religiously. I just try to be a good person and all of that. As far as foreign policy, it's a double edge sword because if you support something that Israel does, then you're a Zionist and if you don't support something that Israel does then you're saltating Jew and you're accused of being against your own people. It's just interesting to see the way this plays out in America because when you go to Israel itself, they have people who just as Americans do, they criticize their own government when they don't agree with it.

Brian Lehrer: They don't get accused of being self-hating Jews. Is there a religious aspect of this which is really what this call-in is about as opposed to the national supporter of Israel and obviously, that's a Jewish state but is there a root here of your politics coming from something about your Judaism, other than support of Israel because it's the state of the Jewish people?

Dave: In a sense, it does come from religion because in the Torah and various other religious texts, it talks about how we have a special bond with the Promised Land and how it plays into why there's so much conflict because people believe for better or worse that it belongs to their people for religious reasons. I think just being a religious minority, in general, it becomes a thing where you learn to accept other types of backgrounds. When you're a majority in this country, you might not understand that there are other points of view that you have to respect others.

Brian Lehrer: I'm going to have to leave it there to get some other folks on, Dave, but thank you very much and it is a universal truth, I think, according to so many people who've experienced it in so many groups and so many places, that minority groups whoever they are wherever they are often have a more accurate view of the majority because they have to live in that majority culture every day than people in whatever majority do over the minority, because they just don't have as much contact. Their imaginations on what those minority groups are about can come to dominate. Dave, thank you. Next to Joshua in Manhattan. Joshua, you're on WNYC. Thank you for calling.

Joshua: Thank you for taking the call and it's been a fascinating show, by the way.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you. The question on the table for people just joining us after our interview with President Carter about religion and politics, how does your religion influence your political beliefs? Joshua, how about for you?

Joshua: Well, I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was not brought up this way. My parents actually were revolutionaries. One thing I learned from growing up around my parents is to be aware of the suffering and injustice in the world, but also, in growing up I realized for myself that man was not solving these problems.

They may be changing who's in power but the power structures continually recreated oppression on different groups. That always bothered me and I was searching for what really could solve the problem that mankind faces. I was drawn to Jehovah's Witnesses because they do not get politically involved.

Brian Lehrer: To the point of not voting. Is that correct?

Joshua: To the point of not voting, to the point of not being in any army or pledging allegiance to any flag or any country at the same time.

Brian Lehrer: What role does that leave you as a citizen? Is that not important too?

Joshua: It is important and we respect the laws of every country wherever we are, but it allows us also to have a unified message all over the world. That is, basically, what we see as the message of the Bible. That's the only real solution to the very real problems that mankind faces is what Jesus called the kingdom of God, and we take our stand on that side. Therefore, we don't see people as enemies even if they believe other things or act.

Brian Lehrer: That could be for war with Iran as a protective measure or against it as a pacifist note that could be for contraception against contraception.

Joshua: No, for war with Iran on what basis?

Brian Lehrer: Couldn't be that, you're saying it couldn't be that?

Joshua: No, it couldn't be that.

Brian Lehrer: Jesus would be for self-defense though, right?

Joshua: You see, if you want to take the question of Iran, why would we as Americans go to war with Iran? They're people just like we are and historically, what has happened we overthrew a democratically elected government.

Brian Lehrer: Over there we certainly did with the government prior to the Shah. Joshua, I'm going to leave it there. We got one more on and it's Andrew in Manhattan. Andrew, hello.

Andrew: Hi. Great show, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you.

Andrew: I'm calling just because when you were soliciting questions about how your one's faith impacts your politics, you ran through the requisite laundry list of various faiths and religions but you didn't explicitly mention atheism. I was just calling to wave that flag.

Brian Lehrer: That's fair enough. We've done a lot of specifically atheist-oriented segments here with those various authors that I mentioned to President Carter. Go ahead, give your last shot on how your atheism specifically informs your politics.

Andrew: I guess, in the most basic terms, it just means that I don't vote for politicians who are clearly religious zealots. That's a pretty simple litmus test, I guess, but that's hard to do in this day and age when pretty much all politicians even the good ones have to at least pay lip service to being Christians.

Brian Lehrer: Almost all presidential candidates have gone through that. Probably all presidents have declared some kind of religious belief. What about if somebody agrees with you? What if President Carter, with the ties that he was describing which I'm guessing you probably agree with a lot of his politics, if his faith and strong faith influenced those politics that you agree with, then you wouldn't shrink from somebody who had a strong belief.

Andrew: That's correct. I have to say that I've always liked Jimmy Carter, or at least liked the idea of him, and that was just reinforced by the interview that you just had on.

Brian Lehrer: It's not so much about that you as an atheist want to stop people with strong religious beliefs from getting into office, it's more strong religious beliefs that move them in directions you don't approve of.

Andrew: Well, there's that. I mean, there's the whole wearing it on one sleeve that I find sort of annoying, and that's whether they're Christian or Muslim or whatever, Jewish or whatever. I [unintelligible 00:40:35] that.

Brian Lehrer: I got to leave it there, Andrew, thank you. Thanks to all of you who called on this beautiful call-in. I wish we could continue with so many more of you who are hanging on, but you can continue it on our web page @wnyc.org. Click on Brian Lehrer Show. As you know, we've done many call-ins here and will do many more having to do with different aspects of religion in your life. Thank you very much for your calls. Thank you again to Jimmy Carter. Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Coming up next, comedian and former lonely guy Jeff Ragsdale, author of the book, Jeff, One Lonely Guy. He posted old-fashioned flyers asking for people to talk to and got an overwhelming response. Stay with us.

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